I first came across Franco Berardi, aka Bifo, in a 1984 issue of Semiotext(e). His piece there, called 'Sand in the Mouth', is about what to do after a defeat, about how to go into the desert and start again. I did not meet him until the 90s, when we were at the legendary Virtual Futures conference at Warwick University together, and then only in passing. So it was a great pleasure to be asked by Not An Alternative to interview him before a live audience in 2009. A truly exhausting experience, in the best possible sense, given his lively intellect. It is a good introduction to some of the themes of his new book, HeroesHere's the video.